mythbustin' in the SCA

[Drew]

Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!

The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.

So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

[David Friedman]

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Other than that one?

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by David Friedman

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Other than that one?

What you have to do is get face-to-face with Cariadoc, who will
tell you his version, a large part of it in rhyme. A very
entertaining performance.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
***@kithrup.com

[georg]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by David Friedman

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Other than that one?

What you have to do is get face-to-face with Cariadoc, who will
tell you his version, a large part of it in rhyme. A very
entertaining performance.

Yes, but for those who have not been blessed by such an opportunity, is
there a way to have something vaguely close to a transcript or a video
of the same? Or at least another bard to tell the tale in a mostly
truthful fashion? I'd like it written somewhere for posterity for that
horrible time when he is not able to share it, in case I continually
miss the opportunity to hear the tale from his own lips.

-georg

[Drew]

Post by David Friedman

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Other than that one?

Well, sure, although I was going to contact you about busting that
particular one yourself... :)
--
purple
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)

[georg]

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

How about the muggers attacking the female fighter or other armed
SCAdians? I've heard several variants, all of them happened to "someone
in another kingdom a while ago."

-georg

[Arval]

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!

Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[georg]

Post by Arval

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!

Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.
===========================================================================

And then, there's the Burger King.

http://www.virtue.to/articles/beowulf.html

-georg

[Steve Mesnick]

Post by Arval
Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.

Indeed. "AElfwine at the Gas Station" is such an Urban Legend.
(Scadian is working at gas station. He's polishing sword under counter.
Thief walks in with knife, says, "Empty the register". Aelfwine says
"No". Thief says "I have 6 inches of cold steel here; open the
register". AElfwine says "I'll see your six and raise you thirty",
draws sword. Thief flees. Variant: he's wearing mail under shirt
to "get used to the weight"; thief cuts, nothing happens, thief drops
knife and runs".) It may have happened, but it wasn't Earl AElfwine
Dunedain.

Steffan ap Kennydd

[Bill Toscano]

How about El calling Yang, Steffan?

Liam

[Steve Mesnick]

Post by Bill Toscano
How about El calling Yang, Steffan?

I've gotten different versions of this -- from El himself -- at
various times. Sigh. That's our El %^). Anyway, the basic elements
are apparently true....

El is Seneschal of the East, back when dirt was in beta-test. He
desperately has to get in touch with a guy in Ann Arbor, Michigan
and all he has is an SCA name...some guy calls himself Yang the
Nauseating %^). So, completely desperate, he figures "what the heck?"
Even then, apparently, some people had duplicate phone listings and/or
checking accounts under their persona names, to "freak the mundanes".

He gives it a shot.

"Long Distance Information."
"Um, I'd like a number in Ann Arbor, please."
"Name?"
"Nauseating, Y.T."
[Pause]
[Whispering: "Hey, Shirley, I know him! He lives in my
apartment building. Wears funny clothes sometimes. Lots
of knives..."]
"Yes, sir, I have that number for you, 555-...."

Steffan ap Kennydd

[Ted Eisenstein]

Post by Steve Mesnick
He gives it a shot.
"Long Distance Information."
"Um, I'd like a number in Ann Arbor, please."
"Name?"
"Nauseating, Y.T."
[Pause]
[Whispering: "Hey, Shirley, I know him! He lives in my
apartment building. Wears funny clothes sometimes. Lots
of knives..."]
"Yes, sir, I have that number for you, 555-...."

The tenth-hand version I heard had it go:
. . .
"Nauseating, Y.t."
"Hold on one moment, please."
[Pause]
[sound of phone call being transferred to another station - or
the headset. Depends on who's telling.]
"This is Yang. How may I help you?"

The versions I heard had him working at the phone company
that day.

Alban

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Steve Mesnick
El is Seneschal of the East, back when dirt was in beta-test. He
desperately has to get in touch with a guy in Ann Arbor, Michigan
and all he has is an SCA name...some guy calls himself Yang the
Nauseating %^). So, completely desperate, he figures "what the heck?"
Even then, apparently, some people had duplicate phone listings and/or
checking accounts under their persona names, to "freak the mundanes".
He gives it a shot.
"Long Distance Information."
"Um, I'd like a number in Ann Arbor, please."
"Name?"
"Nauseating, Y.T."
[Pause]
[Whispering: "Hey, Shirley, I know him! He lives in my
apartment building. Wears funny clothes sometimes. Lots
of knives..."]
"Yes, sir, I have that number for you, 555-...."

Something resembling that happened to Hal once, only he was on
the other end. Hal was working as a programmer for Pacific Bell,
and the union members went on strike. Company policy had always
been to promote upwards through the ranks, so an awful lot of
management people had formerly been working out on the lines
somewhere and got sent to do their old jobs for the duration of
the strike. Those who hadn't had old phone company jobs were
put onto the most dumb-dumb no-skills-required task available--
Directory Assistance.

So one evening someone calls up and wants the phone number for
Leslie Fish, they're trying to arrange her appearance at a con.
Hal knows Leslie; doesn't know her number offhand; does know that
access is restricted 'cause there are some Feds around who still
want to talk to her about some civil disobedience back in the
1960s.

However, Hal's *sister* at that time is running a filkmusic
company called Off-Centaur (later Firebird), and she has Leslie's
number... so Hal gives the caller his sister's number and lets
her do the screening. It all turned out all right.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE ***@kithrup.com

[Arval]

Post by Steve Mesnick

Post by Arval
Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.

Indeed. "AElfwine at the Gas Station" is such an Urban Legend.
(Scadian is working at gas station. He's polishing sword under counter.
Thief walks in with knife, says, "Empty the register". Aelfwine says
"No". Thief says "I have 6 inches of cold steel here; open the
register". AElfwine says "I'll see your six and raise you thirty",
draws sword. Thief flees. Variant: he's wearing mail under shirt
to "get used to the weight"; thief cuts, nothing happens, thief drops
knife and runs".) It may have happened, but it wasn't Earl AElfwine
Dunedain.

The best-established version of that story that I've come across
involved an early Ostgardan on the subway coming home from an event.
It had a name attached to it, but I can't recall it.

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[Andy Dingley]

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:00:09 +0000 (UTC), Arval

Post by Arval
The best-established version of that story that I've come across
involved an early Ostgardan on the subway coming home from an event.
It had a name attached to it, but I can't recall it.

I heard it around 1979, for the London Underground and a Sealed Knot
member with a pike. The name was a friend's brother, but I suspect it
was a UL even then.

[pyotr filipivich]

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Arval

Post by Arval

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!

Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.

Happened to a friend here in Madrona, An Tir. Came home after fight
practice, got all manner of unwanted attention from ruffians, who suddenly
remembered they were late for something. Maybe it was the shield and
practice sword, but, what's a shield maiden to do?

She lead, "an interesting life."

Post by Arval
===========================================================================

[David Cameron Staples]

In Tue, 23 Nov 2004 20:54:29 +0000, pyotr filipivich (pyotr filipivich

Post by pyotr filipivich
Happened to a friend here in Madrona, An Tir. Came home after fight
practice, got all manner of unwanted attention from ruffians, who
suddenly remembered they were late for something. Maybe it was the
shield and practice sword, but, what's a shield maiden to do?
She lead, "an interesting life."

Shades of the "Blood for Odin!" story.

And what about the Little Princess at School story? Certainly cool enough
that it deserves to be true.

[Sister Guineth the White]

Post by David Cameron Staples
And what about the Little Princess at School story? Certainly cool enough
that it deserves to be true.

I got that one from a member of retinue who was part of the demo the then
King and Queen of the East did at their daughter's school to show the
teacher that their daughter was neither lying nor delusional.

Sister Guineth

[Sean Cleary]

Post by Sister Guineth the White

Post by David Cameron Staples
And what about the Little Princess at School story? Certainly cool enough
that it deserves to be true.

I got that one from a member of retinue who was part of the demo the then
King and Queen of the East did at their daughter's school to show the
teacher that their daughter was neither lying nor delusional.
Sister Guineth

a side effect of this effort is I get to read the whole legend. Could
you detail this one please?

Sean

[David Cameron Staples]

Post by Sean Cleary

Post by Sister Guineth the White

Post by David Cameron Staples
And what about the Little Princess at School story? Certainly cool
enough that it deserves to be true.

I got that one from a member of retinue who was part of the demo the
then King and Queen of the East did at their daughter's school to show
the teacher that their daughter was neither lying nor delusional.
Sister Guineth

a side effect of this effort is I get to read the whole legend. Could
you detail this one please?

Well, the version *I* heard (which again, probably has little to do with
the events on the day) goes:

A young man wishes to enter the crown tourney for his principality.
Unfortunately, he holds no-one's favour. He rushes around the site, asking
various ladies if he may bear their favour and fight for them in the
lists, but he is turned down. Eventually, in near desperation, he asks a
young girl, of primary school age. She replies, "Umm, you'd have to ask my
dad."
Our young man finds her father and asks if he may bear her favour. The
father looks him up and down, mentally estimates his chances of winning at
near zero, figures that it can't hurt, and agrees.
The young man wins.
The two are crowned Prince and Princess later that day, to much
rejoicing.
On Monday morning, at school, the tradition was for everyone to stand
up and say what they did on the weekend. At the newest princess' turn, she
stands and says "I was crowned a princess."
Her teacher glares at her sternly, and says, "No you weren't. You will
kindly tell the truth in this room."
"I was crowned a princess!"
"No, you weren't."
"I was, I was, I was," she sobs, and runs form the classroom. She is
dejected for the rest of the day. By the end of the day, the teacher is
worried about how upset the girl is.
The next morning, the girl is missing at roll call. The teacher is very
worried, now, that the girl is so upset as to miss class. Just as morning
assembly finishes, however, the doors to the classroom slam open, and in
marches the Princess, in garb and crowned on a palanquin, with the Prince
in front, and the Royal Guard on each side, and many members of the
principality in formation behind. It is indeed a royal sight, and the rest
of the day is given up as lost, so an impromptu demo is done for the
school, and much fun was had by all.
During the day, however, the girl's father finds her teacher and says
to her, sotto voce, "*Never* call my daughter a liar again."



Don't take this as gospel, as Sister Guineth is a wee bit closer to the
real story than I am, by many years and several tens of thousands of miles.

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by David Cameron Staples
Well, the version *I* heard (which again, probably has little to do with
A young man wishes to enter the crown tourney for his principality.
Unfortunately, he holds no-one's favour. He rushes around the site, asking
various ladies if he may bear their favour and fight for them in the
lists, but he is turned down. Eventually, in near desperation, he asks a
young girl, of primary school age. She replies, "Umm, you'd have to ask my
dad."
Our young man finds her father and asks if he may bear her favour. The
father looks him up and down, mentally estimates his chances of winning at
near zero, figures that it can't hurt, and agrees.
The young man wins.
The two are crowned Prince and Princess later that day, to much
rejoicing.

OK, *that* much is true. Lorissa du Griffin was, I think,
something like ten when she was crowned Princess of Caid.

[palanquin, etc., snipped]

That part I doubt. For one thing nobody *had* a palanquin in
those days.

Post by David Cameron Staples
During the day, however, the girl's father finds her teacher and says
to her, sotto voce, "*Never* call my daughter a liar again."

That *might* have happened. Lorissa's father, mka John Trimble
(I'm blanking on his SCA name) could easily have done that.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE ***@kithrup.com

[David Cameron Staples]

This is fun. We could almost have a game of 'I'll tell a story, and people
who were there tell us how much of it is Chinese Whispers.'

So far we've covered the 'Russians and the SCA on the Carrier', 'The
Princess at School', '"They can't beat him either"' and '"See your 6, and
raise you 30"'.

Maybe this *does* need a website. Anyone have the werewithall to set up a
wiki?

[Fiora Soranzo and Mahir al'Asuad]

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 02:28:57 GMT, David Cameron Staples

Post by David Cameron Staples
This is fun. We could almost have a game of 'I'll tell a story, and people
who were there tell us how much of it is Chinese Whispers.'
So far we've covered the 'Russians and the SCA on the Carrier', 'The
Princess at School', '"They can't beat him either"' and '"See your 6, and
raise you 30"'.
Maybe this *does* need a website. Anyone have the werewithall to set up a
wiki?

Ok, I'm branding myself ignorant... what's a wiki?

I could set up a website, though. I've got plenty of space.

Fiora

[Robert Uhl]

Post by Fiora Soranzo and Mahir al'Asuad
Ok, I'm branding myself ignorant... what's a wiki?

A wiki is a website which is publicly editable. Examples include
<http://c2.com/cgi/wiki> and <http://www.wikipedia.com/>.

[Drew]

Post by David Cameron Staples
This is fun. We could almost have a game of 'I'll tell a story, and people
who were there tell us how much of it is Chinese Whispers.'
So far we've covered the 'Russians and the SCA on the Carrier', 'The
Princess at School', '"They can't beat him either"' and '"See your 6, and
raise you 30"'.
Maybe this *does* need a website. Anyone have the werewithall to set up a
wiki?

It's in progress. This is the detail gathering section. Then Folki and
I will research and try to confirm the true details. Then we'll publish
it in one form or another... :)
--
purple
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)

[Derek Lyons]

Post by David Cameron Staples
Maybe this *does* need a website. Anyone have the werewithall to set up a
wiki?

Easily. I've been toying with the idea of setting up a SCA
wiki(pedia) for some time. I've played with MediaWiki (the engine that
drives the 'pedia) a bit too.

D.

[Zebee Johnstone]

In rec.org.sca on Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:26:13 GMT

Post by Derek Lyons

Post by David Cameron Staples
Maybe this *does* need a website. Anyone have the werewithall to set up a
wiki?

Easily. I've been toying with the idea of setting up a SCA
wiki(pedia) for some time. I've played with MediaWiki (the engine that
drives the 'pedia) a bit too.

Some bods in Lochac have one
http://cunnan.sca.org.au/

SHouldn't be too hard to persuade them to have a myth page.

Silfren

[David Friedman]

Post by Arval

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!

Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.

I heard it about Ragnar, then of Atlantia, now a baron in An Tir.

[Gretchen Beck]

Post by Arval
Keep in mind that some of the events we tell stories about may have
happened more than once to different sets of people. I once told the
barbarians in a burger joint story at an interkingdom event and was
given the names of three different sets of protagonists in three
different kingdoms.

It's probably so popular because it is the kind of practical joke that is
common and easy to pull off. When I was in highschool, back in the days
when The Muppet Show was first run, there were these two guys I knew who
played a variant at the local McDonald's. One would order in Swedish Chef
(bork, bork, bork), and the other one would translate the order.

toodles, margaret

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by georg
How about the muggers attacking the female fighter or other armed
SCAdians? I've heard several variants, all of them happened to "someone
in another kingdom a while ago."

The one about "I'll see your five and raise you twenty-four"?
That's frequently told of Trude Lacklandia, but it didn't happen
to her. The person it actually happened to was Jerry Pournelle,
in New York, a couple of years before AS I. He'd just left a
poker game at which he'd won a couple hundred bucks--hence the
phrasing--and he was carrying a sword-cane.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
***@kithrup.com

[Andy Dingley]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
The person it actually happened to was Jerry Pournelle,
in New York, a couple of years before AS I. He'd just left a
poker game at which he'd won a couple hundred bucks

I can't believe that.

There's just no way Jerry Pournelle could create enough suspension of
belief to bluff well enough to win at poker.

[pyotr filipivich]

I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show Andy Dingley

Post by Andy Dingley

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
The person it actually happened to was Jerry Pournelle,
in New York, a couple of years before AS I. He'd just left a
poker game at which he'd won a couple hundred bucks

I can't believe that.
There's just no way Jerry Pournelle could create enough suspension of
belief to bluff well enough to win at poker.

Way I'd heard it, he'd been losing, which made him grumpy.

tschus
pyotr


--
Nikolai Petrovich Flandropoff
Whimiscal Order of the Ailing Wit
Scribe & Zampollet to Clan MacFlandry
Loose Canon, An Tir Heavy Opera Company
Semi-offical TASS correspondent (That makes me - the Demi-Tass)

[Steve Mesnick]

Post by georg
How about the muggers attacking the female fighter or other armed
SCAdians? I've heard several variants, all of them happened to "someone
in another kingdom a while ago."

Ooh, ooh, Mister Kot-tair, I know that one! %^)

That was Sir Koppel fun Baurieux, once of the East, now
inactive (so I understand) in Trimaris. The story is that
a group of Scadians including several ladies, all fully garbed,
were coming home on the NYC subway after an event when they were
accosted by muggers, that Koppel defended them with sword and shield,
and that he was knighted for it (on March 18, 1970).

I once asked Koppel about it and he confirmed that the incident *did*
happen, but that he was already a knight at the time.

Steffan ap Kennydd

[Purple Kat]

georg <***@stny.rr.com> wrote in message news:
How about the muggers attacking the female fighter or other armed

Post by georg
SCAdians? I've heard several variants, all of them happened to "someone
in another kingdom a while ago."
-georg

The version *I* heard was:

A Lady had just been Knighted at an event and was walking home (in
full knightly gear under her heavy cloak) across Central Park, and was
acosted by muggers..

Mugger - "Gimme your money!"
Lady - "Says who?"
Mugger - "I got 6" that says so!" (pulls out knife)
Lady pulls aside cloak and pulls out sword - "I'll see your 6 and
raise you 30!"

Mugger runs away and Lady finishes her walk home.
Next week Lady hears about strange sword weilding female demon
'haunting' Central Park.

I don't believe this because only recently has the East Kingdom had
female Knights.

And then there is the Pennsic story of the 6' blond female weilding a
10' pole arm beating a person to mush in the middle of the night...

I was that 6' blond (I am 5'5" and dk auburn) it was noon, I had a
migrane, and it was a 6' walking stick to get rid of an overly sexed/
over testoteroned male. I simply touched him above both ears and then
tapped him on the top of the head saying "You're Dead" (all in less
than 10 seconds)

By the next day the story had floated from EK Royal (where it
happened) to the parking lot and back again.

I was listening to a bunch of people telling this 'true story' and a
gentleman was taking notes in regards to tracking down the story, when
I told him the true version...
Where upon someone else told us the 'actual truest version' of the
event.
hehehehe

Lady Katheryne
who was 'famous' for at least 3 days at Pennsic

[David Friedman]

Post by Purple Kat
I was listening to a bunch of people telling this 'true story' and a
gentleman was taking notes in regards to tracking down the story, when
I told him the true version...
Where upon someone else told us the 'actual truest version' of the
event.
hehehehe

And I was lying in my tent one night when I heard someone walking past
telling someone else the (largely mythical) account of how Pennsic got
started. I think that was the different Pennsic from the one where
someone told me the story (in the upper bathhouse) and wouldn't believe
me when I told him it wasn't true.

[Martha]

Post by David Friedman
And I was lying in my tent one night when I heard someone walking past
telling someone else the (largely mythical) account of how Pennsic got
started. I think that was the different Pennsic from the one where
someone told me the story (in the upper bathhouse) and wouldn't believe
me when I told him it wasn't true.

So what *is* the true story? :)

Marti

(don't google to email)

[Drew]

Post by David Friedman

Post by Purple Kat
I was listening to a bunch of people telling this 'true story' and a
gentleman was taking notes in regards to tracking down the story, when
I told him the true version...
Where upon someone else told us the 'actual truest version' of the
event.
hehehehe

And I was lying in my tent one night when I heard someone walking past
telling someone else the (largely mythical) account of how Pennsic got
started. I think that was the different Pennsic from the one where
someone told me the story (in the upper bathhouse) and wouldn't believe
me when I told him it wasn't true.

Like I said, I'd planned on asking you about this: The myth is, as I
was told, anyway, that you were King of the MidRealm, and challenged the
East to war. The East didn't respond. Then you moved and became king
of the East, found a letter from an upstart king of the MidRealm, and
declared war, thus declaring war upon yourself, and (the legend
continues) proceeded to lose.

So.

What's the REAL story, then?
--
purple
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)

[Fiora Soranzo and Mahir al'Asuad]

Post by georg

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

How about the muggers attacking the female fighter or other armed
SCAdians? I've heard several variants, all of them happened to "someone
in another kingdom a while ago."
-georg

*cynical smile* And if you believe the pathological liar I know, it
happened to her and a bunch of her friends. At least on SOME days you
ask her.

Fiora

[Ted Eisenstein]

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Why? There are some myths that are too good as stories to warrant
'busting'.

Alban

[Drew]

Post by Ted Eisenstein

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were
actually in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Why? There are some myths that are too good as stories to warrant
'busting'.
Alban

If the mythi is that cool, the story behind it will be cool too.
--
purple
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)

[Bratt]

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.

Ashe'el

[Megan & Dave]

That was relatively easy :)
It's linked from the Legio Draconis site, but these Scadians were facing the
RCMP
Legio Link:
http://tinyurl.com/6jffv
Photo Album:
http://www.phreeow.net/riot/

Gwenhyfar

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.
Ashe'el

[Bratt]

this isn't the one i was thinking of... but it's still good for a smile,
laugh and the almighty " noshit there i was stories ". :)

the one i was thinking of wasn't planned.

Post by Megan & Dave
That was relatively easy :)
It's linked from the Legio Draconis site, but these Scadians were facing the
RCMP
http://tinyurl.com/6jffv
http://www.phreeow.net/riot/
Gwenhyfar

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.
Ashe'el

[Wade from Lions Gate]

Howdy (or How do ye)

They call it the Tatonka.

Here are some images from Tatonka 5 from the Barony of Lions Gate web
site. Lions Gate is in the Principality of Tir Righ in the Kingdom of An
Tir.

http://www.lionsgate.antir.sca.org/people/tatonkaV/

I believe that the images on this site might be images from the same source:
http://www.tiarmour.com/tatonka_5_practicing_rmcp.htm

I wish I had the local write up on hand, but I'll try to get all the
details correct. I recognize a number of the fighters in the images,
which is sort of nice. I believe they don't advertise the exact location
broadly to the public though I imagine most fighters locally can find
out about it.


They've been doing the RCMP Riot Police Shield Wall vs SCA Shield Wall
exercises here for I'm not sure how many years. I'm not sure if Tatonka
5 was the last one so it has been happening for at least 5 years. A
number of my friends are involved. It often unnerves the officers who
are not used to being able to actually hit someone in practice with
little worry. Our guys do have to tone it down a little so as not to
injure the Riot Police simply because their protective gear isn't geared
for the sort of punishment ours faces.

It is also very helpful for the Riot Police to get practice in working
under such circumstances and keeping their cool. A lot of taunting is a
part of the exercise.

I've never been to one. But I hear that it's a blast for all
participants and a very useful training exercise.

Sincerely,
Wade
--
__/ Wade \________________________

"Sapientia Propter Amorem"

Lord Wade Anderson of Many Places OLC
Per bend sinister, per bend sable and vert, and azure, a bottle-nosed
dolphin embowed argent
Kingdom of An Tir, Principality of Tir Righ, Barony of Lions Gate
New Web Site:
http://s94380391.onlinehome.us/WadeOfManyPlaces/Wade%27sRealm.html
===========================
(mka) Darrell Wade Penner

[Sean Cleary]

Post by Megan & Dave
That was relatively easy :)
It's linked from the Legio Draconis site, but these Scadians were facing the
RCMP
http://tinyurl.com/6jffv
http://www.phreeow.net/riot/

SCA vs the Hells angles or other bike gang: sca won because of
shields. Early event, may have been written up.

Midwest SCA guy has been wearing Chainmail until he does not notice
the weight. Goes through airport scanner and messes up the machine.
From or before 1983.

[Morgan McManus (Broman)]

04-11-25

Greetings,
2 stories I know are true as I was there when the happened :

1) (late 1970's) Me and a group of friends, abt. 4-5 people are on our way
home from a Tolkien Society (not SCA) party, in Stockholm, Sweden, so we go
to catch the underground. At the station a group of young guys start making
funny comments about the garbs, cloaks etc. As we ignore them they
eventually get a bit more cocky and approach us. One of my friends
discreetely(sp?) slips his cloak aside and shows the hilt of his broadsword.
The effect is instant, the guys fade away into the evening.

2) (late 1980's-early 1990's) During a Visby (also Sweden) Mediveal Week
event I am walking along a small sidestreet in the town, wearing my ringmail
(chainmail is a fantasy term) a leather shirt and garb underneath. A group
of LRP's (Live Role Player's) show up and surround me, they ask about the
armour and I tell them it is 6-to-1 steel rings. Suddenly one of the boys
drags out his knife, a "Mora-kniv" about 20 cm long and stabs me in the
chest with it (?!?), the knife-blade breaks right then and there, everyone
is very impressed, once we recover from the surprise...:) I was happy that I
hade made a good job on the armour and was wearing a shortsleeved leather
jacket underneath....

Later the same week a horse, used during the show about Valdemars plundering
of Visby, bit/nibbled me in the right shoulder. Once more the ringmail shirt
saved me.

Cheers
Morgan//
Ol' Uncle Wolf....

[Chris Zakes]

On 24 Nov 2004 18:51:39 -0800, an orbital mind-control laser caused

Post by Sean Cleary

Post by Megan & Dave
That was relatively easy :)
It's linked from the Legio Draconis site, but these Scadians were facing the
RCMP
http://tinyurl.com/6jffv
http://www.phreeow.net/riot/

SCA vs the Hells angles or other bike gang: sca won because of
shields. Early event, may have been written up.
Midwest SCA guy has been wearing Chainmail until he does not notice
the weight. Goes through airport scanner and messes up the machine.
From or before 1983.

Here's the version that I've heard of that story:

Deaton Claymore was king of Atenveldt, back in AS 11. He'd flown out
to an event in Bjornsborg (San Antonio) in what was just starting to
become Ansteorra. On his way back to "central" Atenveldt, he was
taking his mail shirt in a case, as carry-on luggage.

He came up to the security checkpoint (remember that this was 1976,
airport security wasn't nearly as stringent as it is now) and put the
case on the table. The security guard reached out to pull it toward
him and it didn't move--we're talking 40 or 50 lbs of mail here-- so
the guard tried again with both hands. As he slid the case towards
him, the metal detector ten feet behind him went off. The guard opened
the case *very* cautioulsy and was more than a little confused by what
he saw. Deaton explained what it was and why he was carrying it and
they let him get on the plane with his luggage.

-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra

From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
be thought of as a series of loosely connected holes.

-Terry Pratchett, "Lords and Ladies"

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Chris Zakes

Post by Sean Cleary
Midwest SCA guy has been wearing Chainmail until he does not notice
the weight. Goes through airport scanner and messes up the machine.
From or before 1983.

Deaton Claymore was king of Atenveldt, back in AS 11. He'd flown out
to an event in Bjornsborg (San Antonio) in what was just starting to
become Ansteorra. On his way back to "central" Atenveldt, he was
taking his mail shirt in a case, as carry-on luggage.
He came up to the security checkpoint (remember that this was 1976,
airport security wasn't nearly as stringent as it is now) and put the
case on the table. The security guard reached out to pull it toward
him and it didn't move--we're talking 40 or 50 lbs of mail here-- so
the guard tried again with both hands. As he slid the case towards
him, the metal detector ten feet behind him went off. The guard opened
the case *very* cautioulsy and was more than a little confused by what
he saw. Deaton explained what it was and why he was carrying it and
they let him get on the plane with his luggage.

Here's one that I know happened, because it happened to my lord
husband. Hal had made a mailshirt and was wearing it under his
shirt, as above. He was waiting at the airport for someone to
arrive, and hanging around just outside the security area because
he didn't want to trigger the scanners. After a while the
security staff noticed him hanging around and started giving him
the hairy eyeball. He said, "I'm hanging back here because I
don't want to set off your scanners," and unbuttoned a few
buttons to show what he was wearing.

Instant, standard, cop-meets-SCA reaction. "Oh, wow! What is
that! Is it made of steel? Did you make it yourself? Hey, come
over here and step through the scanner, we want to see what
happens!" So he did, and they said, "Wow. The whole screen went
white!"

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
***@kithrup.com

[pyotr filipivich]

Post by Sean Cleary

Post by Megan & Dave
That was relatively easy :)
It's linked from the Legio Draconis site, but these Scadians were facing the
RCMP
http://tinyurl.com/6jffv
http://www.phreeow.net/riot/

SCA vs the Hells angles or other bike gang: sca won because of
shields. Early event, may have been written up.
Midwest SCA guy has been wearing Chainmail until he does not notice
the weight. Goes through airport scanner and messes up the machine.
From or before 1983.

Related story topic.

Way back in 19 mumble mumble, after British Air resumed operations
following the Lockerbie incident, Soir Brand of Madrona An Tir, who also
ran a Medieval Educational Company (does demos of Medieval Society for
schools and such. Sort of "SCA Lite".), was called to provide "colour" for
the event. At little Public Relations.
So, Soir Brand shows up, in a maile hauberk, down to his knees. You
guessed it, that much iron sets off the metal detector, even before he gets
to it. Good time was had by all, and If Memory Serves, he said he was
photographed (and may have copies) of him being "wanded" in his chain mail
shirt.

tschus

Nikolai
--
Nikolai Petrovich Flandropoff
Whimiscal Order of the Ailing Wit
Scribe & Zampollet to Clan MacFlandry
Loose Canon, An Tir Heavy Opera Company
Semi-offical TASS correspondent (That makes me - the Demi-Tass)

[Drew]

Post by Sean Cleary

Post by Megan & Dave
That was relatively easy :)
It's linked from the Legio Draconis site, but these Scadians were facing the
RCMP
http://tinyurl.com/6jffv
http://www.phreeow.net/riot/

SCA vs the Hells angles or other bike gang: sca won because of
shields. Early event, may have been written up.
Midwest SCA guy has been wearing Chainmail until he does not notice
the weight. Goes through airport scanner and messes up the machine.
From or before 1983.

Actually, I have a friend (yeah, I know) who really did to this. Almost
missed his flight because he was explaining things.
--
purple
--
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html
--
"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over,
their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight,
restore their government to its true principles."
(Thomas Jefferson, in a letter of 1798, after the passage of the
Sedition Act.)

[Megan & Dave]

That one's not a myth, I saw photos...I'll look around and see if I can find
them again, they were online.

Gwenhyfar

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.
Ashe'el

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.

I don't think that ever happened *at all*, and certainly not in
California. What you might have heard after a great deal of
inflation was that in AS single-digits most of the then-minuscule
SCA was filling various roles in the very-new Nothern Renaissance
Faire. This included Master Randall of Hightower as the Sheriff
of Nottingham and a lot of his friends, all ex-military-intelligence,
as his henchmen. They all wore black with silver trim and a
little yellow badge of a boar's head. (This was the 1960s.) The
Marin County Deputy Sheriff who was in charge of external
security for the Faire and Randall got along very well. They
traded war stories and gun lore and so forth, and the Deputy
Sheriff wore a little yellow boar's head badge too, when he was
on duty at the Faire.

Anyway, Randall and the Deputy used to discuss how their
respective guys would hold up against in combat against each
other. It was never anything more than a Gedankenexperiment.
They concluded that unless the Sheriffs used guns, the SCA-folk
would trounce them, particularly since rattan weapons would
probably crack the plastic riot shields.

I cannot remember, in the whole history of the West Kingdom, a
situation where the local police were anything other than
friendly and fascinated by the SCA. Most frequent line: "Gee, I
wish I wasn't on duty, I'd like to try that!"

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE ***@kithrup.com

[Richard R. Hershberger]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
I cannot remember, in the whole history of the West Kingdom, a
situation where the local police were anything other than
friendly and fascinated by the SCA. Most frequent line: "Gee, I
wish I wasn't on duty, I'd like to try that!"

When I was in college in Caid we had a tourney at my campus. The
campus police were quite enchanted by the whole thing, and we got a
photo of a motorcycle policeman with a couched pole-arm. Alas, that
photo is long gone to me.

In terra pax,
Rouland

[David Cameron Staples]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.

I don't think that ever happened *at all*, and certainly not in
California.

The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD. They were all told how to hold
their baton and shield, but he automatically dropped into the standard
sword-on-shoulder resting pose. The drill seargant was livid, and went
down to teach him how stupid this was, and how easy it would be to take
him down.

When the seargant came to, he asked one of his aides who that guy was.
"Oh, he's in the SCA."
"What does that mean?"
"It means we can't beat him, Sarge."
"Sod that," or words to that effect, said the sarge, and got up for
another go.

When he came to, he found his aide talking to the man in question.
"Well?"
"He's a Knight in the SCA."
"What does *that* mean?"
"It means *they* can't beat him either."

(Insert 'Duke' for Knight if required.)

[Arval]

Post by David Cameron Staples
The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD.

Different story. This is the famous Sir Vissevald in the National
Guard story, part one of the Vissevald Cycle. Vissevald doesn't deny
it, which is good enough for me.

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[David Cameron Staples]

In Tue, 23 Nov 2004 22:58:51 +0000, Arval (Arval

Post by Arval

Post by David Cameron Staples
The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD.

Different story. This is the famous Sir Vissevald in the National
Guard story, part one of the Vissevald Cycle. Vissevald doesn't deny
it, which is good enough for me.

Is the Vissevald Cycle still in the oral tradition, or is there a
manuscript miraculously saved from a fire somewhere?

[Arval]

Post by David Cameron Staples
Is the Vissevald Cycle still in the oral tradition, or is there a
manuscript miraculously saved from a fire somewhere?

Could be, but not by me. I don't write stuff like that down; but I do
perform it for small (often liquid) recompense.

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[Richard Macdonald]

Post by Arval

Post by David Cameron Staples
The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD.

Different story. This is the famous Sir Vissevald in the National
Guard story, part one of the Vissevald Cycle. Vissevald doesn't deny
it, which is good enough for me.
===========================================================================
Arval

And I believe that the other Scadian present was Duchess Elena (Duke Baldars
sister)
--
Don Iain of Rannoch
Husband to Lady Elizabeth of Cranstone

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Richard Macdonald

Post by Arval

Post by David Cameron Staples
The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD.

Different story. This is the famous Sir Vissevald in the National
Guard story, part one of the Vissevald Cycle. Vissevald doesn't deny
it, which is good enough for me.
===========================================================================
Arval

And I believe that the other Scadian present was Duchess Elena (Duke Baldars
sister)

Elena of Beckinham? I suppose it's less impossible that she
would be teaching riot control, but not by much. She was a
Captain of MPs in the Army; she served in Somalia among other
places. And she wasn't a Knight yet, last I heard.

But I *don't* think she was around in the days when Vissevald was
in the Army (National Guard, whatever); that was in the late
1960s and Elena served in the 1990s.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE ***@kithrup.com

[Richard Macdonald]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Richard Macdonald

Post by Arval

Post by David Cameron Staples
The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD.

Different story. This is the famous Sir Vissevald in the National
Guard story, part one of the Vissevald Cycle. Vissevald doesn't deny
it, which is good enough for me.
===========================================================================
Arval

And I believe that the other Scadian present was Duchess Elena (Duke Baldars
sister)

Elena of Beckinham? I suppose it's less impossible that she
would be teaching riot control, but not by much. She was a
Captain of MPs in the Army; she served in Somalia among other
places. And she wasn't a Knight yet, last I heard.

No, she was the one who spotted the person
in question as probably from the SCA.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
But I *don't* think she was around in the days when Vissevald was
in the Army (National Guard, whatever); that was in the late
1960s and Elena served in the 1990s.

There may be more than one similar incident of SCA
members involved in military riot control training.

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California

Don Iain of Rannoch

[Michael Squires]

Post by Richard Macdonald
There may be more than one similar incident of SCA
members involved in military riot control training.

I had a friend who is a good SCA heavy fighter with two-handed weapons who
went through basic training a few years ago; when he single-shot his first
opponent he was immediately assinged to KP for the rest of the pugil stick
training sessions.

I wonder if DI's now have procedures on how to handle recruits who are already
experts in weapons forms.

My candidates for favorite stories (about someone else):

Duke Syr Laurelen and the pair of knife-wielding hoodlums

Not directly an SCA story, but Sanjuro of Western Seas and his wielding the
family katana when his unit was overrun by VC during the VietNam War

Duke Master Moonwulf surrounding a melee team of 23 authorized fighters - by
himself

And, since I was one of the idiots involved - the meeting between the Blackstone Rangers and a group of SCA people walking up State Street in Chicago to
the feast at Talymar's coronation in Ida Noyes Hall.

Alan Culross

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by David Cameron Staples

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.

I don't think that ever happened *at all*, and certainly not in
California.

The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD. They were all told how to hold
their baton and shield, but he automatically dropped into the standard
sword-on-shoulder resting pose. The drill seargant was livid, and went
down to teach him how stupid this was, and how easy it would be to take
him down.
When the seargant came to, he asked one of his aides who that guy was.
"Oh, he's in the SCA."
"What does that mean?"
"It means we can't beat him, Sarge."
"Sod that," or words to that effect, said the sarge, and got up for
another go.

Oh, that one. You've got a chunk of a Vissevald Selkirksson story
mixed in with other elements.

Post by David Cameron Staples
When he came to, he found his aide talking to the man in question.
"Well?"
"He's a Knight in the SCA."
"What does *that* mean?"
"It means *they* can't beat him either."
(Insert 'Duke' for Knight if required.)

No, Vis was in basic training for the *Army.* The sergeant was
teaching the recruits how to fight with sticks, and the usual
routine was for the sergeant to challenge one of the newbies to
hit him. The newbie would be completely unable to touch the
sergeant, and this would establish the meme of "The Sergeant
knows infinitely more than you do and you have to learn to do it
his way".

However, Vis succeeded in hitting the sergeant pretty well. They
sparred for a while, and the training officer up on a tower
(watching all the various units down on the field training)
called down, "Hey, Sergeant. Ask that guy if he's in something
called the Society for Creative Anachronism."

Sergeant calls back, "He says he is. What's that mean."

"It means you can't hit him."

Sergeant pauses a moment, and then calls up, "He says he's a
Knight. What does that mean?"

"It means they can't hit him either."

There's another great Vissevald-in-the-Army story which I'll
save for another time.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
***@kithrup.com

[David Cameron Staples]

In Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:29:43 +0000, Dorothy J Heydt (***@kithrup.com
(Dorothy J Heydt)) in hoc locus scripsit:

<snip Vissevald story>

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
There's another great Vissevald-in-the-Army story which I'll
save for another time.

The joy of the Oral Tradition. If we had a time machine, I suspect that
Beowulf was just a guy helping a friend to get rid of a trespasser who
lived in a rowboat and who had a mean dog, or something similar.

This is the difference between history and myth, of course. If *you* write
that story, it's history. If *I* do it, it's legend.

[Megan & Dave]

Is this enough of another time yet?

Gwenhyfar
(I love these stories.)
"Dorothy J Heydt" <***@kithrup.com> wrote in message
<SNIP>

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
There's another great Vissevald-in-the-Army story which I'll
save for another time.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by Megan & Dave
Is this enough of another time yet?

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
There's another great Vissevald-in-the-Army story which I'll
save for another time.

Oh, ok.

Vis had gotten through basic training without too many traumas
(the instructors') and had gotten pretty good at what he did (Hal
seems to recall he was regular Army, not National Guard, but
that's not seriously important for this tale). He was good
enough that the other guys in his outfit bragged about what he
could do, and one evening they and a bunch of Green Berets were
doing a bragging competition in a bar, and one thing led to
another.

The Green Berets were encamped on a hill with only one
approachable side: the other sides were too steep to climb.
Supposedly. The powers that were had already arranged that the
Berets and Vis's outfit were going to do war games against one
another. What Vis's buddies said was that Vis could take their
site all by himself. And the bet was made.

When Vis found out what they'd committed him to, he was a trifle
annoyed because they'd done it without asking him. However, on
the morning of the exercise, just as dawn broke, he set himself
to climbing the supposedly unscalable cliff, armed with a lot of
fake grenades and a fake knife. He was expecting to find maybe
one sleepy guard whom he could take out easily (kind of like the
SCA practice of "Light, you're dead") and then plant his grenades
in the rest of the camp.

What he found when he got to the top of the cliff was one guard
who was wide awake, and so he pulled out his fake knife and the
guard pulled out his fake gun and they mixed it. Soon both had
been disarmed, and so each picked up a handy stick and they
continued to mix it. The other guy was pretty good; but this was
VISSEVALD. Soon he had disarmed him again and had him flat on
his back with Vis's stick at his throat.

And Vis said, "Where'd you learn to fight like that?"

And the guard said, "Atenveldt."

Whereupon Vis brought his stick up to a salute and said, "When
you return to your far land of Atenveldt, tell them of this
fight, and do not be ashamed: for it is no disgrace to lose to
the Crown Prince of the East."

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE ***@kithrup.com

[Megan & Dave]

Thank you. :) :)

This is almost as good as 'stories around the campfire at war' Only missing
a campfire. (and somehow I don't think my husband would be too impressed if
I set fire to the living room in an attempt to get one going.)

Gwenhyfar

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Megan & Dave
Is this enough of another time yet?

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
There's another great Vissevald-in-the-Army story which I'll
save for another time.

Oh, ok.
Vis had gotten through basic training without too many traumas
(the instructors') and had gotten pretty good at what he did (Hal
seems to recall he was regular Army, not National Guard, but
that's not seriously important for this tale). He was good
enough that the other guys in his outfit bragged about what he
could do, and one evening they and a bunch of Green Berets were
doing a bragging competition in a bar, and one thing led to
another.
The Green Berets were encamped on a hill with only one
approachable side: the other sides were too steep to climb.
Supposedly. The powers that were had already arranged that the
Berets and Vis's outfit were going to do war games against one
another. What Vis's buddies said was that Vis could take their
site all by himself. And the bet was made.
When Vis found out what they'd committed him to, he was a trifle
annoyed because they'd done it without asking him. However, on
the morning of the exercise, just as dawn broke, he set himself
to climbing the supposedly unscalable cliff, armed with a lot of
fake grenades and a fake knife. He was expecting to find maybe
one sleepy guard whom he could take out easily (kind of like the
SCA practice of "Light, you're dead") and then plant his grenades
in the rest of the camp.
What he found when he got to the top of the cliff was one guard
who was wide awake, and so he pulled out his fake knife and the
guard pulled out his fake gun and they mixed it. Soon both had
been disarmed, and so each picked up a handy stick and they
continued to mix it. The other guy was pretty good; but this was
VISSEVALD. Soon he had disarmed him again and had him flat on
his back with Vis's stick at his throat.
And Vis said, "Where'd you learn to fight like that?"
And the guard said, "Atenveldt."
Whereupon Vis brought his stick up to a salute and said, "When
you return to your far land of Atenveldt, tell them of this
fight, and do not be ashamed: for it is no disgrace to lose to
the Crown Prince of the East."
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California

[Steve Mesnick]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Megan & Dave
Is this enough of another time yet?

Post by Dorothy J Heydt
There's another great Vissevald-in-the-Army story which I'll
save for another time.

Oh, ok.

[SNIP]
Dorothea's version is pretty spot-on the tale that Vis himself
confirms. There is also now a Part II: he's at Pennsic at night,
trolling for parties^H^H^H bardic circles, when he hears the
words "So he asks me where I learned to fight like that, and
I say 'Atenveldt', and he says...."

Steffan ap Kennydd

[Arval]

Post by Steve Mesnick
Dorothea's version is pretty spot-on the tale that Vis himself
confirms. There is also now a Part II: he's at Pennsic at night,
trolling for parties^H^H^H bardic circles, when he hears the
words "So he asks me where I learned to fight like that, and
I say 'Atenveldt', and he says...."

Another footnote: I told this story once to a roomful of people at a
post-revel in Carolingia. When I finished, a pile of pillows,
blankets, and blondes on a sofa across the room rose, shook itself
free, and revealed itself to be Vissevald. He said "You told that
story very well. Thank you. If I ever hear you tell it again, I'll
trear out your lungs."

He hasn't heard me tell it again, but he did have to leave the room
quickly on one occasion...

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[Anthony Bryant]

Post by Arval
Another footnote: I told this story once to a roomful of people at a
post-revel in Carolingia. When I finished, a pile of pillows,
blankets, and blondes on a sofa across the room rose, shook itself
free, and revealed itself to be Vissevald. He said "You told that
story very well. Thank you. If I ever hear you tell it again, I'll
trear out your lungs."

Some legends just don't appreciate their own PR. :)

Effingham

[Gene Wirchenko]

Post by Anthony Bryant

Post by Arval
Another footnote: I told this story once to a roomful of people at a
post-revel in Carolingia. When I finished, a pile of pillows,
blankets, and blondes on a sofa across the room rose, shook itself

^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
I am wondering about this wording.

Post by Anthony Bryant

Post by Arval
free, and revealed itself to be Vissevald. He said "You told that
story very well. Thank you. If I ever hear you tell it again, I'll
trear out your lungs."

Some legends just don't appreciate their own PR. :)

Do we know that this actually happened? We could have legends
about legends!

I have been enjoying this thread. I like stories, but I like
true stories even more, so I like to see debunking.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Computerese Irregular Verb Conjugation:
I have preferences.
You have biases.
He/She has prejudices.

[Steve Mesnick]

Post by David Cameron Staples
The version *I* heard was that it was an SCA member who was doing basic
riot control training with the local PD. They were all told how to hold
their baton and shield, but he automatically dropped into the standard
sword-on-shoulder resting pose. The drill seargant was livid, and went
down to teach him how stupid this was, and how easy it would be to take
him down.
When the seargant came to, he asked one of his aides who that guy was.
"Oh, he's in the SCA."
"What does that mean?"
"It means we can't beat him, Sarge."
"Sod that," or words to that effect, said the sarge, and got up for
another go.
When he came to, he found his aide talking to the man in question.
"Well?"
"He's a Knight in the SCA."
"What does *that* mean?"
"It means *they* can't beat him either."

Heh. The version *I* heard (confirmed, as I recall, by his
Grace) was that it was Duke Vissevald Selkirksson when he was
in the National Guard.

Steffan ap Kennydd

[Fiora Soranzo and Mahir al'Asuad]

Post by Dorothy J Heydt

Post by Bratt
The fighter practice where the cops went against armed fighters? i
believe it occurred somewhere in California.

I don't think that ever happened *at all*, and certainly not in
California. What you might have heard after a great deal of
inflation was that in AS single-digits most of the then-minuscule
SCA was filling various roles in the very-new Nothern Renaissance
Faire. This included Master Randall of Hightower as the Sheriff
of Nottingham and a lot of his friends, all ex-military-intelligence,
as his henchmen. They all wore black with silver trim and a
little yellow badge of a boar's head. (This was the 1960s.) The
Marin County Deputy Sheriff who was in charge of external
security for the Faire and Randall got along very well. They
traded war stories and gun lore and so forth, and the Deputy
Sheriff wore a little yellow boar's head badge too, when he was
on duty at the Faire.
Anyway, Randall and the Deputy used to discuss how their
respective guys would hold up against in combat against each
other. It was never anything more than a Gedankenexperiment.
They concluded that unless the Sheriffs used guns, the SCA-folk
would trounce them, particularly since rattan weapons would
probably crack the plastic riot shields.
I cannot remember, in the whole history of the West Kingdom, a
situation where the local police were anything other than
friendly and fascinated by the SCA. Most frequent line: "Gee, I
wish I wasn't on duty, I'd like to try that!"
Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California

Is it possible this is referring to the incident where the SCA had
reserved a park, but a baseball team claimed they had reserved it, so
they went and got the police? I read it in the Handbook... and the end
result WAS that the cops were very interested, and the baseball team
had to find somewhere else to play.

Fiora

[James Koch]

Drew,
Before you begin it would behoove you to obtain and read a copy of The
Knights Next Door, since Patrick has already travelled the world in
pursuit of these legends. Of course only a few are included in the
book. You can order a copy from the following site:
http://www.knightsnextdoor.com/ .
Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

[ray]

I remember a story that a group of sca'ers were stationed on the USS
Enterprise and whenever a Russian spy trawler or recon plane came by the
Captain would have them hold fighting practice on the flight deck. It
further claimed that pictures appeared in a russian military magazine titled
something like: "american sailors practicing riot control"
Raimund of the Strait

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories that
people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually in the
story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!
--
purple
Help me raise money to defeat Breast Cancer!
http://www.drewncapris.net/bcfund/hair.html

[David Cameron Staples]

Post by ray
I remember a story that a group of sca'ers were stationed on the USS
Enterprise and whenever a Russian spy trawler or recon plane came by the
Captain would have them hold fighting practice on the flight deck. It
further claimed that pictures appeared in a russian military magazine
titled something like: "american sailors practicing riot control"

The version I heard goes:

An Aircraft Carrier was somewhere around Alaska, or the North Sea, or
*somewhere* like that, when they noticed that they were being buzzed by
Soviet recon planes. The captain decided to give them something to look
at, and called over the comm, "All members of the SCA report to the flight
deck in armor for a training session in ten minutes."
At this time (I don't know if it still is so) there were enough SCAers
on board most Carriers for them each to be a floating Barony. So. A dozen
or a score or so of fully armoured fighters gets off the elevator, and
sets up a round-robin tourney on the flight deck, in full view of any
passing sightseers^WRussians.
They thought no more of it until the fall of the Soviet Union, and some
of the old records were opened. Suddenly they found that this incident had
*almost* started nuclear war. When the soviets saw men in armour training
with sword and shield on a modern warship, they tried to find an
explanation for it, and the only one that made sense was that the
Americans were training secretly for post-nuclear-war combat, when the EMP
would make electronics useless, and presumably make ammunition stop
working, or something. There was semi-serious talk in memo form of
launching a pre-emptive strike, until the idea was laughed down.

[Ralph E Lindberg]

Post by David Cameron Staples

Post by ray
I remember a story that a group of sca'ers were stationed on the USS
Enterprise and whenever a Russian spy trawler or recon plane came by the
Captain would have them hold fighting practice on the flight deck. It
further claimed that pictures appeared in a russian military magazine
titled something like: "american sailors practicing riot control"

An Aircraft Carrier was somewhere around Alaska, or the North Sea, or
*somewhere* like that, when they noticed that they were being buzzed by
Soviet recon planes. The captain decided to give them something to look
at, and called over the comm, "All members of the SCA report to the flight
deck in armor for a training session in ten minutes."
At this time (I don't know if it still is so) there were enough SCAers
on board most Carriers for them each to be a floating Barony. So. A dozen
or a score or so of fully armoured fighters gets off the elevator, and
sets up a round-robin tourney on the flight deck, in full view of any
passing sightseers^WRussians.
They thought no more of it until the fall of the Soviet Union, and some
of the old records were opened. Suddenly they found that this incident had
*almost* started nuclear war. When the soviets saw men in armour training
with sword and shield on a modern warship, they tried to find an
explanation for it, and the only one that made sense was that the
Americans were training secretly for post-nuclear-war combat, when the EMP
would make electronics useless, and presumably make ammunition stop
working, or something. There was semi-serious talk in memo form of
launching a pre-emptive strike, until the idea was laughed down.

Never happened

I asked the guys that were in the shire on the USS Nimtz (there never
was a Barony on any ship). The Nimtz was the Shire of Crawg Moore (SP)

Ralg

[Michael Houghton]

Howdy!

Post by Ralph E Lindberg
I asked the guys that were in the shire on the USS Nimtz (there never
was a Barony on any ship). The Nimtz was the Shire of Crawg Moore (SP)

There was once a Shire of Curragh Mor in Atlantia that evaporated as such
things happen. When the Nimitz moved to An Tir (Bremerton?), the name was
transferred and redesignated a "Port" or something like that -- the type of
branch that can go dormant when the membership dwindles but can be
reconstituted when it comes back.

yours,
Herveus

[Derek Lyons]

Post by Michael Houghton
Howdy!

Post by Ralph E Lindberg
I asked the guys that were in the shire on the USS Nimtz (there never
was a Barony on any ship). The Nimtz was the Shire of Crawg Moore (SP)

There was once a Shire of Curragh Mor in Atlantia that evaporated as such
things happen. When the Nimitz moved to An Tir (Bremerton?), the name was
transferred and redesignated a "Port" or something like that -- the type of
branch that can go dormant when the membership dwindles but can be
reconstituted when it comes back.

The Shire of Curragh Mor (in Atlantia) was the USS Nimitz (at the time
she was based out of Norfolk).

D.

[Ralph E Lindberg]

Post by Derek Lyons

Post by Michael Houghton
There was once a Shire of Curragh Mor in Atlantia that evaporated as such
things happen. When the Nimitz moved to An Tir (Bremerton?), the name was
transferred and redesignated a "Port" or something like that -- the type of
branch that can go dormant when the membership dwindles but can be
reconstituted when it comes back.

The Shire of Curragh Mor (in Atlantia) was the USS Nimitz (at the time
she was based out of Norfolk).

.... and still the name when they where here. Trust me they are events
I went to.

Ralg

[Derek Lyons]

Post by Ralph E Lindberg
I asked the guys that were in the shire on the USS Nimtz (there never
was a Barony on any ship). The Nimtz was the Shire of Crawg Moore (SP)

Curragh Mor your Excellency.

D.

[Arval]

Post by David Cameron Staples
An Aircraft Carrier was somewhere around Alaska, or the North Sea, or
*somewhere* like that, when they noticed that they were being buzzed by
Soviet recon planes. The captain decided to give them something to look
at, and called over the comm, "All members of the SCA report to the flight
deck in armor for a training session in ten minutes."

The version I heard, many, many years ago didn't have a shire or
barony on board, just a group of Societyfolk who ocacsionally held
fighting practice.

Post by David Cameron Staples
They thought no more of it until the fall of the Soviet Union, and some
of the old records were opened. Suddenly they found that this incident had
*almost* started nuclear war.

That part is fantasy.

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[Michael Squires]

Post by ray
I remember a story that a group of sca'ers were stationed on the USS
Enterprise and whenever a Russian spy trawler or recon plane came by the
Captain would have them hold fighting practice on the flight deck. It

I know that happened with a destroyer stationed in the Indian Ocean many years
ago.

Alan Culross

[David Cameron Staples]

Post by Drew
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

How about the story that when Gulf War I was announced, it was in the
middle of Pennsic, and many reservists were called out from the middle of
it. As a half apology for such circumstances, their commanding officers
allowed many of them to take their war banners, and some were known to fly
them slung under Apaches and flying from tank aerials. It is further said
that the Iraqis were baffled, and that there was radio chatter along the
lines of;
"We are being attacked. There is an Apache at the front of the
formation, with a banner beneath it. I don't recognise the division...
It's green, with a white dog or wolf standing up, and three squiggly
things up top, like knots or something... Who are they? Is it a new
division?..."


(Device made up from *ahem* whole cloth. Any similarity, etc.)

[Hugh Prescott]

According to some reports I heard there was a picture of a humvee with a
Calontir banner flying from it's radio antenna. Possibably part of the hail
mary across the desert.


Hugh

Post by David Cameron Staples

Post by Drew
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

How about the story that when Gulf War I was announced, it was in the
middle of Pennsic, and many reservists were called out from the middle of
it. As a half apology for such circumstances, their commanding officers
allowed many of them to take their war banners, and some were known to fly
them slung under Apaches and flying from tank aerials. It is further said
that the Iraqis were baffled, and that there was radio chatter along the
lines of;
"We are being attacked. There is an Apache at the front of the
formation, with a banner beneath it. I don't recognise the division...
It's green, with a white dog or wolf standing up, and three squiggly
things up top, like knots or something... Who are they? Is it a new
division?..."
(Device made up from *ahem* whole cloth. Any similarity, etc.)
--
David Cameron Staples | staples AT cs DOT mu DOT oz DOT au
Melbourne University | Computer Science | Technical Services
This is my Angry Face! Grrr. -- Ralph Wiggum

[DEAJAVU]

i have heard the "princess story" was really a prince from Ansteorra belonging
to Sir Finn Kelley and Sir Cyf Ironhand. though i am good frneds with their
only doughter, i have never asked her about said story. maybe i should!
Kyna Terricsdottir
Ansteorra
***@aol.com

[Dorothy J Heydt]

Post by DEAJAVU
i have heard the "princess story" was really a prince from Ansteorra belonging
to Sir Finn Kelley and Sir Cyf Ironhand. though i am good frneds with their
only doughter, i have never asked her about said story. maybe i should!
Kyna Terricsdottir

Well, I remember only a time when I was sitting with a group of
small kids, one of whom was the son of the then-Prince of perhaps
I won't say what Principality. And he started saying, "Well, I'm
important, because my father is a Prince!"

So I told him the following story, which you can find in _The
Little Princesses_ by I forget the name, but she was governess to
Princesses Elizabeth and Margaret.

It was 1936 and Edward VIII had just abdicated, and the governess
explained to the girls (quite young at the time) that their Uncle
David had had to abdicate, because he wanted to marry someone
whom England would not accept as Queen. Therefore, their father
was going to be the next King. That's why he went out early this
morning; and when he came home this afternoon he would be King,
and the girls would have to curtsy when they saw him, as they
used to curtsy to Grandfather.

"Margaret too?" Elizabeth asked.

"Margaret also," said the governess, "and try not to stumble."

So the little Princesses practiced all afternoon, and when their
father came home they curtseyed; and the King said afterwards
that seeing that had brought the change in his life home to him
more than anything else.

Dorothea of Caer-Myrddin Dorothy J. Heydt
Mists/Mists/West Albany, California
PRO DEO ET REGE ***@kithrup.com

[Chris Zakes]

On 25 Nov 2004 19:17:08 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser caused

Post by DEAJAVU
i have heard the "princess story" was really a prince from Ansteorra belonging
to Sir Finn Kelley and Sir Cyf Ironhand. though i am good frneds with their
only doughter, i have never asked her about said story. maybe i should!
Kyna Terricsdottir
Ansteorra

That seems unlikely. Finn and Cyf didn't have any kids when they were
on the throne of Ansteorra.

-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra

From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
be thought of as a series of loosely connected holes.

-Terry Pratchett, "Lords and Ladies"

[David Cameron Staples]

In Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:59:05 +0000, Chris Zakes (Chris Zakes

Post by Chris Zakes
On 25 Nov 2004 19:17:08 GMT, an orbital mind-control laser caused

Post by DEAJAVU
i have heard the "princess story" was really a prince from Ansteorra belonging
to Sir Finn Kelley and Sir Cyf Ironhand. though i am good frneds with their
only doughter, i have never asked her about said story. maybe i should!
Kyna Terricsdottir
Ansteorra

That seems unlikely. Finn and Cyf didn't have any kids when they were
on the throne of Ansteorra.

See my full telling of the version I know elsewhere on this thread.
Actually, this information fits with the story I know, as in this version
the princess becomes so by giving her favour to the winning prince, rather
than by virtue of being the daughter of the K&Q. It also adds flavour that
her father (who must give permission) is a former King himself.

[Chris Zakes]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:39:26 -0600, an orbital mind-control laser

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Back in my early days (around AS 10) there was a story that a group of
SCA folk were having a wedding at a medieval-style apartment complex's
rec room. Suddenly they heard screams for help from outside, and upon
invesitgation, saw a lady being dragged toward a car by several guys.
The immediate response was "A damsel in distress! To the rescue, to
the rescue!" and off they went. The guys in the car took one look at
this mob coming after them, dropped the woman and tried to escape.The
car ended up losing all windows, all four tires and had a pike
*through* the engine block before it was stopped and the miscreants
could be detained for the police.

There's also a story about an SCA-person en route to a revel, who
stopped at a convenience store, only to walk into the middle of a
robbery. When the police arrived, the culprit was reportedly on his
knees at swordpoint *praying* for the cops to rescue him from this
lunatic.

The following story is at least 90% true: Many years ago, during the
quarter-finals of a Queen's Champion touranment, my opponent struck me
in the face with sufficient force that my fencing mask was pushed bak
against the bridge of my nose, causing a small, but spectacularly
bloody cut. A year or two later, for mundane business reasons, he
moved from Texas to Massachusetts. While he was attending an SCA event
on a visit back to Ansteorra, someone was overheard telling another
fellow "See that guy? That's Shamino; he *killed* a guy in a
tournament, and had to leave the kingdom." Needless to say, the
reports of my death were greatly exaggerated.

-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra

From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
be thought of as a series of loosely connected holes.

-Terry Pratchett, "Lords and Ladies"

[Susan Carroll-Clark]

Greetings--

Post by Chris Zakes
There's also a story about an SCA-person en route to a revel, who
stopped at a convenience store, only to walk into the middle of a
robbery. When the police arrived, the culprit was reportedly on his
knees at swordpoint *praying* for the cops to rescue him from this
lunatic.

Here's one that was true: It was Ealdormere Coronet Tourney in January,
1996, and the site had run out of beer. Lord Etian au Naval (who is a
member of Hrogn, the late Osis Jarl's household, and like many of that
household, is a big, tall man who likes beer) volunteered to go on a beer
run. When he got to the beer store, he discovered a robbery in
progress--which he broke up (alas, no SCA weapons involved, but the robber
was not armed, either). He then purchased the beer and returned to site.
Someone told the King, who that evening awarded Lord Etian a Dragon's Tooth,
which is for "bravery in combat."

Nicolaa

[Michael Squires]

Post by Chris Zakes
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:39:26 -0600, an orbital mind-control laser
Back in my early days (around AS 10) there was a story that a group of
SCA folk were having a wedding at a medieval-style apartment complex's

This sounds like a combination of the of stories told by L. Sprague
de Camp in an article he wrote for a collection of essays about heroic
fantasy describing the early SCA.

One involved rescuing a lady being attacked in a parking lot; the other
involved an attack on an SCA revel.

Alan Culross

[ajbryant(NOSPAM)]

Post by Michael Squires
One involved rescuing a lady being attacked in a parking lot; the other
involved an attack on an SCA revel.

Well, there is a very true account of Sir Koppel fun Barieux (currently in
Trimaris) back in the old days in the East. He was on his way somewhere (I
believe in NYC) when he jumped in to defend a lady who was being mugged, and in
the process got severely messed up. He did save the damsel, however.

Effingham

[David Cameron Staples]

Post by Michael Squires

Post by Chris Zakes
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:39:26 -0600, an orbital mind-control laser

One involved rescuing a lady being attacked in a parking lot; the other
involved an attack on an SCA revel.

Would that be "Blood for Odin!"?

[Kat Dyer]

Post by David Cameron Staples
Would that be "Blood for Odin!"?

The only 'Blood for Odin' story I know of involves a man I know who was
butchering a deer for an event. He'd left a note on his front door
telling his friends to not bothering ringing the doorbell but to just
come around the back. Now Brand Olafson tends to butcher deer while
wearing nothing but an apron and a pair of shorts and resembles a viking
(eg beard and long hair and not scrawny). Some persons intent on
carrying the Word of the Lord came to his door and were evidently unable
to read anything but the Bibles and tracts which they were carrying with
them because they proceeded to ring the doorbell, ignoring the well
placed and highly visible sign, which said not to ring the doorbell but
to just come around back.

Brand wondered who might be at his door, ignoring the sign. He
continued to butcher the deer for feast, getting more blood on him.
They rang the bell again. He ignored whomever it was who obviously
could not read. They rang the bell again. At this point Brand got
peeved (a sight in itself) and stormed around the house to see just who
it was who was interrupting him. Now you have to understand that this
is the man who has had to be forcibly drug out of the kitchen at events
to receive awards (there's a song about that in Meridies "Patron Saint
of Pot-scubbers"), wearing... you guessed it, an apron and a pair of
shorts... he does put on a tunic once the food is finished being prepared.

Now, once he came around the corner, he sees these persons with their
Bibles and their tracts and a gleam comes into his eye and thought forms
in his brain and he backs up. Remember, he is wearing a pair of shorts
and a blood soaked apron from butchering the deer and he is still
holding the knife. So, clutching the knife in his hand and raising it
above his head, he races around the corner of the house yelling "Blood
for Odin!!"... whereupon the persons who had evidently been unable to
read the sign on his door telling them not to ring the doorbell ran for
their very lives. Or so I was given to understand.

Kat

[Cynthia Virtue]

Post by David Cameron Staples
Would that be "Blood for Odin!"?

That type of story inspired a true story -- I was there. Ok, well, I
was there a couple of hours later and heard it from the involved, but it
hadn't had much time to drift yet:

My husband-at-the-time, Li Kung Lo, and I had just returned from
Pennsic. He was a nurse on the night shift; I had gone off to work, and
his task for the day was to take steel wool to the pike he'd bought and
stupidly left outside the tent. (I may be poorly describing the pike;
it was six feet long, had a curved blade at the side and a spike at the
top of the handle.)

So there he was, sitting in our apartment in a tunic and not much else,
scrubbing at the pike. He was expecting a friend, so when the doorbell
rang, he brought the pike along to show him.

It was Jehovah's Witnesses, tracts in hand.

He leveled the pike at them, and shouted over his shoulder "Igor, it's
Christians! Get the bone saw!"

[Ted Eisenstein]

Post by Kat Dyer
The only 'Blood for Odin' story I know of involves a man I know who was
butchering a deer for an event. He'd left a note on his front door
telling his friends to not bothering ringing the doorbell but to just
come around the back.

<snipped>
Huh. The version I heard (you know, all of this is rather fun, what
with all these variants running around hither and yon) had it happen
in a mostly-SCA-rented house. The itinerant converters were invited in
by those not involved in the slicing-and-dicing. The guy in the kitchen
heard the conversation, came out all splattered and with a haunch in
one hand, and asked "So, who forgot to clean the altar last night?"

. . . and no-one on the block was ever bothered again.

Or so the story I heard goes.

Alban

[James Koch]

Post by Ted Eisenstein
Huh. The version I heard (you know, all of this is rather fun, what
with all these variants running around hither and yon) had it happen
in a mostly-SCA-rented house. The itinerant converters were invited in
by those not involved in the slicing-and-dicing. The guy in the kitchen
heard the conversation, came out all splattered and with a haunch in
one hand, and asked "So, who forgot to clean the altar last night?"
. . . and no-one on the block was ever bothered again.

The above sounds like a variant on an incident which occurred a couple
of times at Asgard back in 1973. Asgard was a big seven bedroom house
on the edge of the Case Western Reserve University campus which was
rented out by a bunch of Cleveland SCA folks. One Saturday morning
Ozzie and several others were in costume preparing to leave for a
local SCA event when the Jehova's Witnesses rang the front door bell.
Ozzie who weighed 430 pounds was decked out in his red houpeland when
he answered the door. He invited the Jehova's Witnesses into the
foyer at the bottom of the main staircase and said he was sorry he
couldn't really spend any time conversing since everyone in the house
was just about to leave for a United Heathan Evangelical Society
meeting. At that moment his wife Karen shouted from above "Ozzie, is
there anything else you need from upstairs?" Ozzie shouted back
"Don't forget my sacrificial dagger." Karen at first was confused,
but went into their bedroom, unsheathed Ozzie's Gerber Mark 2, placed
it on a red velvet pillow and hurried down the stairs. When the
Jehova's Witnesses saw it they quickly appologized for arriving at a
bad time and then quickly left. For years after that Cleftlanders
jokingly referred to ourselves as members of the United Heathen
Evangelical Society.
Jim Koch (Gladius The Alchemist)

[Arval]

I recall several versions of the weirding-out-the-door-to-door-
-missionaries legend. One involves the Society homeowner coming from
his forge to answer the door, smeared with soot and dressed in boots
and a knee-length leather apron.

I took personal inspiration from these. One summer, I flew from
Ithaca to Albuquerque to meet my family for a vacation, and suffered
an hour-long layer-over in Pittsburgh. I installed myself in a quiet
corner with my backpack and my book, and settled in to read until my
flight was called. About 20 minutes later, I looked up to see a
nicely groomed young man who asked me "Would you like to learn about
The Master?" I replied "No, thank you. Would you like to be a blood
sacrifice to Odin?". He left me alone after that.

===========================================================================
Arval ***@mittle.users.panix.com

[Chris Zakes]

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:39:26 -0600, an orbital mind-control laser

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!

Here's one I'd like the straight skinny on:

Back around AS 12 or 13, Johnathan Whitewolf abdicated as King of
Atenveldt.That much is fact. The stories we heard in Ansteorra were
that he and his lady were having marital troubles, possibly working on
a divorce, when he won Crown.

Supposedly he was at an event where she wasn't expected to attend, and
was fooling around with some other woman when the Queen *did* show up.
The story goes that Her Majesty walked into Court, pulled off her
crown, threw it at him and it stuck in the back of his Throne.

-Tivar Moondragon
Ansteorra

From the point of view of an arrow, chain mail can
be thought of as a series of loosely connected holes.

-Terry Pratchett, "Lords and Ladies"

[Kat Dyer]

Post by Drew
Ok, so a friend of mine and I are embarking on a new project: doin' a
little bit of myth-busting in the SCA. We'll take the oldest stories
that people swear are true, and track down the people who were actually
in the story, and see what's what!
The classic example of this is how Cariadoc declared war on himself to
create the first Pennsic.
So, who has SCA myths that they'd like to see busted? Send 'em on!